S3 Ep2 Behind the Scenes: The Making of "Conquering Breast Cancer" continues

Dramatic moments, high stakes, funding challenges and fascinating people. Just another day in the life of a documentary really! 

In this episode of the Documentary Filmmaker Podcast, I (Sue Collins) am your host as we deep dive into the process of making a documentary, using the upcoming film "Conquering Breast Cancer" as a case study. The project, a decade in the making, is in its final stages of post-production and is set to premiere next month. 

I'm exploring the challenges we faced during this lengthy journey, including funding hurdles and the evolving landscape of breast cancer treatment. The episode emphasises the importance of persistence in documentary filmmaking, highlighting how time can enrich storytelling. 

Disclaimer: The information shared in this podcast is not medical advice and you should always consult with trusted medical professional for any medical concerns you have.

There is a resource page on the www.conqueringcancercampaign.com website with links to credible websites for more information and support services for breast cancer. 

If you're interested in seeing Conquering Breast Cancer on the silver screen in Australia from June 2026 - you can book tickets at https://conqueringcancercampaign.com/conquering-breast-cancer-au/

This episode includes comments from incredible people featured in Conquering Breast Cancer: Dyna Eldaief, Pratika Lal, Kristal Kinsela, Lyn Swinburne, Sandra Sturgess, Raelene Boyle and Bruce Mann.  

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:02

Dramatic moments, high stakes, funding challenges, flat batteries and fascinating people. It's just a day in the life of making a documentary. So welcome back to the Documentary Filmmaker podcast. This is the second episode in series three, and I am talking about how to make a documentary and using our soon-to-be-released in cinemas across Australia. Conquering breast cancer as a case study to walk you through from the A, which was last week's episode if you missed it, all the way hopefully to Z. And Z would be an Oscar. So yeah, the hopes are pretty high that we get to that. But this project is still in the final stages of post-production, so it's not quite across the line yet, but it's been 10 years in the making, so let's just say it's well on the way, and one way or another, it will get finished before its pink carpet premiere next month. So, documentaries take time, sometimes a very long time, which has been the case with Conquering Breast Cancer. It's a film that's been on a slow, steady simmer for around 10 years now with a long stint of not much happening. The lengthy timeline has added to the richness of stories and given us the ability to show how quickly things are changing in breast cancer. And this gives us hope for the future. If you missed the last episode, I went into detail on how this project was initiated and why we persisted even when the going got tough. And here's a bit of the why to bring you up to speed. But please remember that nothing in this podcast is intended to be medical advice. I am sharing what I have been learning, but always speak to your own trusted medical professional for medical advice. You should always do your own research and check any facts for yourself. So, just labouring that point, this is not medical advice. The National Breast Cancer Foundation, on their site, it states that one in seven Australian women will develop breast cancer. The rates do vary somewhat in each country, but overall, breast cancer is the most common cancer in women globally. When we initially set out to make this film, it was to explore how women could prevent breast cancer, particularly women who are at high risk due to a family history. But I quickly learned that breast cancer doesn't have an easily accessible primary prevention method. Because unlike some other cancers, such as skin cancer or cervical cancer, there currently isn't a vaccine or a behaviour-driven slip-slop-slap approach that can prevent it. In fact, the biggest factor for developing breast cancer is being female. And the more I learned, the more I realized how much I didn't know. And how much is that the case so often in life? But I was also learning how much many of us don't know about breast cancer, and it turns out it's not even one disease. There are many different types of breast cancer, and it affects women of all ages, not just older women, as is commonly thought. So taking you back 10 years or so now to where this story of conquering breast cancer was really at its very beginning. So, disclaimer, I don't want to share documented facts from 10 years ago because they're out of date. So, what I'm about to share with you is actually current statistics that I sourced from the National Breast Cancer Foundation and the Breast Cancer Network Australia. But for the sake of storytelling, please imagine that I was learning this from 10 years ago. So here it goes. Here are a few current facts to keep in mind. Breast cancer is the leading cause of cancer death in women worldwide. Global breast cancer cases are projected to double by 2050. Besides being a woman, age is the most significant factor for developing breast cancer, with the risk increasing as you get older. Over 75% of all breast cancers in Australia are diagnosed in women over the age of 50, and the average age of breast cancer diagnosis in women is around 61. In Australia in 2024, breast cancer was estimated to be the most common diagnosed cancer in women aged 20 to 39 years, and 1% of breast cancers are diagnosed in men. So these statistics should have you sitting up straight or running a little bit faster on that treadmill if that's where you're listening from. Look, statistics are a useful way to define, you know, the scope of breast cancer and who is most affected. But statistics do not tell the story. They don't tell you what you can do to address your own risk, what behaviour change you could implement to reduce your risk. Medical folk like to call these modifiable risk factors, and statistics don't help you understand the human cost or lived experience of a disease like breast cancer. So what does? Or rather, where is the story? Well, it's hearing from survivors, thrivers, and their family and friends. It's learning from specialists, researchers, and advocates working tirelessly to reduce the burden of this disease. Not the statistics, but the humans involved. And that's what conquering breast cancer is about. It's what is breast cancer? Why does it matter? And where is the hope for the future? For you filmmakers listening in, this is the film's purpose or the premise. Can we conquer breast cancer? Reflecting back on the stories we've captured, I have met some remarkable people.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

What I learnt from climbing Everspace Camp, I brought into climbing this mountain, what is, you know, the active treatment journey. There was a huge need at the time to change the system to make the system work better. So that was basically the end of my teaching career. You live with the knowledge knowing that it is incurable. You just hope that you keep responding to the treatment that you're on. I'm not going to say it's bigger than winning an Olympic medal, but it's probably one of the most satisfying things I've ever done.

SPEAKER_02 7:15

Those comments were from Crystal Kinsella, Lynn Swinburne, Sandra Sturgis, and Rayline Boyle. All ladies you'll hear more from in future episodes. Last episode, I introduced you to Dinah L. Dave, the fabulous woman who is actually responsible for initiating this film and getting this journey underway. And next up, I want you to meet Pratika Lull, two-time breast cancer survivor, advocate and founder of the Treasure Chest Charity. And now I am reminiscing the start of this project, or perhaps it's watching the interview in the edit that my mind is cast back to a beautiful spring day in September 2016. Flowers were just beginning to bloom and the spring days were starting to warm up. Normally, when we arrive at people's homes to film interviews, I feel like a complete, total space invader. But not on this occasion. Arriving at Pratiquil's was like being embraced with a warm hug in the kitchen. She had an amazing meal bubbling away in the slow cooker, and her gorgeous little white dog was so excited to see us. Added to my surprise was that the meal she was cooking was for us for lunch.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Yeah, look, falls apart. Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

What an unexpected treat. Doco crews normally do not get fed on location. There is no catering trucks for us. We're just kind of grabbing what we can on the go. But ahead of sitting down and turning the cameras on for the interview, it was definitely not straight to business with Pratika. She um and I spent some time looking at her very well-tendered garden and we chatted about her story. And then all these are all self-seeding. See, like these ones have all come up just by themselves.

SPEAKER_04 9:18

My name is Pratika, and I was first diagnosed with cancer 30 over just over 13 years ago. Um, and my mum uh was diagnosed at the age of 43, 44, and um she passed away when she was 62, so that was about 24 years ago. And um it was a bit of a shock when I first got cancer because we just thought that it was just one-off and it was the end of the story. But um I had a mastectomy um then, and um I was given the all clear and everything was great, and then 10 years later I got diagnosed a second time, but this time it was a bit more invasive. Um, it was a hormone receptor HTR2 positive cancer, um, which was a bit of a shock. But um, we have a family history of breast cancer. Out of the five women in my family, four of us have had breast cancer now. And um, one of them had a gynecological cancer. Um, but then when we started all getting diagnosed continuously, um, we decided to do a bit of a familial um research into our um into our history and medical history. And we discovered that over the years um there have been quite a few women with ovarian, you know, like stomach issues or breast issues or who have died really young in my mother's side. And um, so um we became part of that Peter Mack um familiar research program, uh, and everyone got tested. Um, and the funny thing is that I'm the only one who doesn't have the gene, yet I've got I've had the cancer twice. So Professor Bruce Mann is quite intrigued with that. He's my breast surgeon. And um we've since done a few more tests, and we just can't work out what's going on there.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Okay, let's take a pause here. Now, at this time, 10 years ago, I was very early in learning about breast cancer, and I was very much in fact-finding and development mode. Understanding familial risk and surgery was quite new for me. So when Pratika said that her surgeon was Professor Bruce Mann, I immediately had a question because Dr. Mann was also Dinah's breast surgeon. But Dinah was exploring prevention. So, why did both these ladies have the same breast surgeon? So, guess who's next on my interview wish list? But let's get back to Prateeka for a moment. Breast cancer, like many other cancers, requires a lot of treatment, even when it's found early. I asked Pratika what her treatment involved. After her first diagnosis, she had a mastectomy. Ten years later, almost to the day of her first diagnosis, she chose a preventative mastectomy for the remaining breast and hysterectomy because of the high risks of gynecological cancer. After the surgery to remove her remaining breast, pratika was told they found another cancer that was already growing. Since then, she's undergone chemotherapy, hormone therapy, and long-term follow-up treatments. Oh, I couldn't quite believe it. It was just so much treatment. And this leads to the emotional toll of breast cancer. So I asked Pratika how she coped emotionally after so many surgeries and setbacks.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

I just couldn't believe that God would do that to our family again, you know, because it was a very traumatic experience with my mother because she fought so hard. But also the medicine was so different. So, you know, the scar was awful and there was no provisions or facilities to make her life better, you know. There's horrible prostheses that were like rocks, you know, and she that's all she had, you know. And um, there's almost a stigma attached to cancers and stuff at the time, you know, like people never talked about the big diseases because you know it was a sign of weakness, you know, or something, I don't know, you know, but people didn't talk about it. And um, so when I got cancer, I was so angry. I was angry at God. I just didn't believe there was such a thing as God because I was angry because my family was gonna go through this trauma again. I was angry because I'm gonna lose everything, you know, and anger and fear are to me are very close to each other. Yeah, I don't I don't think you can be angry without having a some element of fear because I think that's why people react the way they do in anger is because they have fear. And those two together are the most, you know, to me. And I'm so proud of my family because we're so bloody close to each other and we could kill for each other, you know, like and there's no um no hills, but we just jump in and we just put ourselves together, and you know, and I think there's strength in that, you know. Like I think if we didn't have that, we just wouldn't make it, you know, and we just keep getting up and going, yeah, no, whatever, you know. Bring it on, you know, we just cut the next limb off. There is a God. I do believe in him again. It took me a while. And um we need to do more for you know, it's about community, and um it's so important, the community aspect because without hope, we just can't do any of this stuff right. And also you must remember hope, faith, love.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

That's what makes people and community makes people work. So the burden and the emotional toll of this disease was really hitting home for me now, and the importance of making this film was really taking shape. I'd learned from Dinah the emotional toll of being at high risk to develop breast cancer.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Even though you sort of think, oh, it'll be nothing. Sometimes you think, well, it could be, but it does plan your mind.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

And now I'd heard from Pratika just how devastating the disease is for survivors and their families. And I was also learning that a cancer diagnosis comes with a whole lot of other concerns, costs, access to treatment, and support networks. And that fear of the breast cancer relapse or recurring is very real. You may recall that up to 30% of early breast cancer cases will go on to become metastatic. Sometimes it's within a short time, and sometimes it's years and years later. Think Olivia Newton-John, who had her breast cancer come back after 17 years. So, what next? Which questions do I follow up on? And importantly, there's something in the back of my mind here, and that's how to raise the finance to make this film. And I'm sure you recall from episode one, we documentary filmmakers are often like Jerry Maguire running around screaming, SHOVING AMU! So I'll dive into the funding for a moment because a lack of finance stalled this film for quite a few years. The starting point was to put together a list of all the charities, foundations, organizations that work in the breast cancer space and to start pitching to broadcasters. But getting a documentary financed is not easy. One of Australia's Freedroyer channels said no pretty much before I could even open my mouth to pitch it. And I still remember the condescending and dismissive way that commissioning editor kind of waved his hand at me as he brushed off the idea. I'd barely got the words breast cancer out of my mouth before he had me walking out of his office door and dispatching me into the escalator to leave. I don't really want to get started on commissioning editors here because they're not all bad, but frankly, it's not that inspiring. So, what I will say is that experience was awful and it left me feeling pretty low on confidence. But you know what is inspiring? Pratique, who you've just met.

SPEAKER_04 17:46

If you're just going to keep quiet about it, you're not going to change anything. So I want everyone to talk about it. Make it like an everyday conversation, because one in eight women in Australia are going to get cancer. So let's just talk about it all the time.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

She took on the challenge of breast cancer head on and founded the Treasure Chest Charity to support women after breast cancer. She founded it because she saw how many women couldn't afford reconstruction, counselling, or post-surgery care, and some women were waiting up to nine years for reconstructive surgery or paying hundreds for nipple tattoos done in tattoo parlours. And that wasn't acceptable to her. So here's a woman who's lost family members to breast cancer, survived the disease twice herself, and she's dedicated herself to supporting other women. I wasn't about to let one dip f commissioning editor quash my interest to make this film. I needed to take a leaf out of Bratika's book, get on with it, get it funded, and get the important information out into the world to help women better understand breast cancer. So where to from here? Where was the story going? I'd begun to learn about the disease and its impact on women, but what was the story? How can you prevent breast cancer? Next up, Professor Bruce Mann, who at the time was the director of breast cancer services for the Royal Melbourne and Royal Women's Hospitals. Yep, you guessed it. I had quite a few questions. So once a woman's had the high-risk um testing done and they come to your service, I imagine there's an enormous amount of counseling needed to understand the different options available.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

So what would their learning be like?

SPEAKER_01 19:35

So generally, uh this is a situation where it's not an emergency. Decisions don't need to be made in a hurry, and time helps a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

I'll dive into what happened next in next episode, and I hope you've been inspired by some of the comments from Prateeka's interview. And I am pleased to say that we are sharing much more of her story in the feature film Conquering Breast Cancer, which releases from June 2026 in Australian cinemas or theatres, as folks in the USA like to call them. Tickets are already on sale, so head over to conquering cancercampaign.com to book. And for filmmakers listening in, I hope this journey is shedding some light on the documentary development process. I am sharing with you details from right back at the beginning when we were just getting underway and when these interviews were filmed. And you can and you should roll camera as soon as you can when you're working on any documentary project. Many of these early interviews that I've been talking about have formed part of the final film. Nothing is wasted. So don't wait for funding to get your story started. Many of the early interviews from your development may also become imported footage for teasers, trailers, and pitch reels. So start filming as soon as you can. Now to make sure you never miss an inspiring story like Bratika's, please subscribe to this podcast on whatever platform you're on. And if you have questions or would like to leave a comment, head to our Instagram at the Documentary Filmmaker Podcast and leave me a message or direct message me. So next episode I am going to dive into where to next. The research and development is well underway, and I have learned why this topic matters and why this documentary has a significant purpose, which has become the film's central question. What is breast cancer and why does it matter? Through meeting and interviewing both Dinah and Prateeka, two incredible women who are dealing with breast cancer in their own unique ways, the impact of this disease is really sinking in. But for a filmmaker, what is next? And that's all in the next episode. How to follow the story, how to turn it into a plan, and importantly, who's the audience for your film? Until the next episode, happy filmmaking. And if anything in this episode has concerned you about your health or you need any information or resources on breast cancer, please head to the resource page on conquering cancercampaign.com for links to credible sites with relevant information. And remember, I'm sharing what I've been learning on my journey, but what I am sharing is not medical advice and should not be considered advice of any sort. Always speak to your own trusted health professional for medical advice. And if you're in Australia and you want to see the finished film, head to ConqueringCancerCampaign.com to book tickets. Looking forward to sharing more in the next episode.