Starting Early & Growing Strong: A Guide to Audience Engagement Ep97

In the 97th episode of the Moonshine Moonshot podcast, Sue is back with director and impact filmmaker Mike Hill. A slight twist this week, as it's Mike's turn to interview Sue, and the topic is building audiences for independent film projects.

Have you ever tried to drum up an audience for your own projects? 
It's not as easy as it sounds.  So Sue is sharing how to get into the driving seat and get underway with building a thriving audience for your next film.  Because that's what it's all about, isn't it?  Getting people to see your film and then turn them into raving fans.

Sue and Mike will also share the most common mistake when you're thinking about your audience and how you can avoid it.  So turn in ASAP because this is a conversation you don't want to miss!

Curious about the Moonshine Agency films mentioned in this episode? Explore them today!
Website: Conquering Cancer Campaign
YouTube: Conquering Cancer
Visit Moonshine Agency for more Impact Films

What would YOU like to hear about next? We’d love to hear your thoughts and burning questions about the constantly evolving filmmaking industry 🔥 Get in touch on Instagram @moonshinecommunicationsacademy or email us at support@moonshinecommunicationsacademy.com.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 0:05

Welcome to the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. I'm your host, Sue Collins, and if you've landed here, it means you're wanting to find out more about how to make filmmaking a sustainable career. And you're also curious about how to make meaningful work that fills your cup. You're ready to learn how to make movies that matter, build a sustainable career, and have a positive impact on your audiences. So you are in the right place. Filmmaking has so many parts, and I'm sharing what I've learned over the past 15 years producing impact films that reach their intended audience and support real-world change. So let's get started. Hello and welcome back to this week's episode of the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. I am welcoming again Mike Hill, my partner in all things.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Hello, everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

So if you listen to last week's episode, you'll know that I grilled Mike on the directing process for documentary film. And so this week, I think Mike's going to have some questions for me. So Mike, hit me up.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Let me wrestle this microphone off you and ask you a few questions, which is to be honest, what I do and when I feel most comfortable is quizzing people. So today we're going to be talking about building audiences. And I know that you're an expert in this area and you've worked and specialized in this for many years. So my first question is we're about to launch a film project. When should I start building my audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I actually believe that if you are producing an independent project, you should start building your audience as soon as you have picked a title for your film. You need to really be thinking about who that audience is, how you're going to reach them, and you know, really start figuring everything you possibly can out about that potential audience as soon as you possibly can.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

So people listening to this might say, but I don't know who my audience is. They are complete strangers to me. How do they go about building an audience if they don't actually know them personally?

SPEAKER_01 2:18

It's a good question because I think the common mistake many of us, and I certainly did this early career as well, the biggest mistake is to think my my topic is so important, my film is so important, everybody should want to see this. My film is for everybody. I don't want to limit who the audience could be. So it's a really broad audience.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Like every single person on earth.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

Yeah, but that's like seven billion people.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

And has any any piece of content ever reached that that audience?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I don't know how you could possibly reach seven billion people with one message from one film in every single possible language in every single outlet. So no, I think it's absurd.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Okay, so let's get real. Even if you take a very small fraction of that, you've probably got to smash shit on your hands. So how do you figure out who your target audience is?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

So I think the best thing to do is obviously to look at the topic of your film. So if we're talking about a documentary, um, there's going to be a very uh particular thing that your film is about. Um and so who's interested in that topic? That would be the very first place that I would start. So I I sometimes like to sort of explain it to people. If you were going into a bookshop, which section would your film be in? I mean, I know we're talking about films as opposed to books, but if if the topic of your film was in a book form, where would it be in the where would it be in that bookshop? Because that's going to tell you a lot about the type of audience that's going to be attracted to it.

SPEAKER_02 3:47

Yeah, one thing that it sounds like you're saying here, which gives me a bit of hope, is that my film is not just brand new and you have to start from a zero base. What you're saying is we already exist as a society with lots of interests and and connections and networks already, and you just need to tap into that.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yeah, that's right. So once you figure out who your audience is, and maybe you can sort of think, uh, I mean, let's think of a topic. We're we're doing a film at the moment, for example, on skin cancer, um, skin cancer prevention. So who's interested in skin cancer prevention? Well, yes, everybody on the planet should be interested in not getting skin cancer. However, we can't, as we've established, talk to seven billion people. So say we're looking at an Australian audience. Okay, so that's 25 million people. Who within that Australian audience? Okay, well, you really want to talk to people who are most exposed to the sun. So then you'd start thinking about, well, who is that? And you go, well, it's often younger people who are sunbaking because they want to be tanned and they want, they think they associate being tanned with being healthy. So you've already narrowed it down to people who um admire tanning. And so then you can go, okay, well, they're people who probably read magazines, they're probably on Instagram, and you can kind of do this very, very high-level generalized breakdown of a particular audience segment. And then you can go and test that research because you can go to Instagram and you can find profiles and you can find people and do that sort of analytics, and you can look at YouTube videos and look at YouTube analytics, and you can look at all these various places where your audience might be hanging out. And then you can kind of go, okay, well, they are here. These are these are my people. This is who I want to be talking to, and that's going to give you a huge amount of information, just that little bit of research on social media alone.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Running with that example of the skin cancer film, which is called Conquering Skin Cancer, and I can't wait for it to release later this year. Are the participants a source of inspiration for where you might find audiences? The stories that you've captured, does that help you identify who might also be interested in the film you're making?

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Yeah, absolutely. So I think one of the first stories we captured for that particular project was a a younger mother. So she had um children, um, one's an early teenager, one's still in primary school. And so she talked about her experience with the son and her relationship with the son, what getting a a melanoma had meant for her, and then how she communicates that back to her family and to her children. And so you can think, okay, well, that's a younger mother. So how how many other mothers would be interested in learning about this to not just protect their own skin, but also that of their children? So there you've identified an audience demographic right there.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

I can see how those audience demographics would really help in terms of the types of content you publish on social media. I'm also interested to know about the role of groups. So when groups come together and how you can harness them in terms of building your audience.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Groups are really, really important. So if you can identify a group that is motivated on the topic of your film. So we did this a lot with our more recent release, which was on cervical cancer prevention. And there's some incredibly motivated groups who are very, very active on social media in getting messaging out around, you know, how to um get vaccinated and how to get screened for cervical cancer. And by connecting with those groups and creating relationships with those groups, they'll share your content, you can share their content, you're all pulling in the same direction. They've already got an established audience, they're not coming from scratch. So if you can um I I don't think piggyback's the right word because it probably doesn't sound quite right, but it's about everybody moving in the same direction and connecting audiences from one thing to the other thing because they're related and aligned.

SPEAKER_02 8:00

Yeah, it feels like it's sort of two-way sharing. You know, you've got a film that you've produced and and that could be a real value to that group and their community. And equally, the community that that group has established and built has great value to you as a filmmaker. So, how do you engage with groups and networks to get them behind your film?

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I think that's where you need the long late. That's why you need to start doing this work almost as soon as you've picked the name for your film and you've established your social media platforms, because it takes a long time to build relationships. It's like anything. You can't just knock on someone's door and say, Hey, come and help me. You know, you don't get married on the first date. You've got to you've got to actually develop a trust and a mutual understanding, and they need to know that the film you're creating is actually in alignment with their views and values. And that takes time. So that'll take a process of probably sharing a bit of your content with them, and then you look at what they're saying, and then, you know, over a period you'll you'll develop that relationship. And perhaps it's even somebody that you'd like to have as an interviewee for your film, and then they become part of the film, and then they'd be even more motivated to be involved. So there's all kinds of ways it can happen. Sometimes we'll interview someone and they're part of an organization, and then due to their involvement in the film as a participant, they engage their organization to get behind the film. So it kind of builds slowly over time.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah. So and that's really a a collaborative process, isn't it? And building up your networks around the film and really leaning into them. Let's get a bit more practical now, you know, about actual things that our listeners can do to build audience. What are some of the activities that they can go out and do that are likely to benefit the long-term outcomes of the film?

SPEAKER_01 9:57

Well, I always think starting right from the beginning with as soon as you pick the title for your film, claiming your social media profiles to go with that title. So, for example, with Conquering Skin Cancer, go and claim Conquering Skin Cancer as a handle on every social platform that you think you're going to use. Create the website or a landing page or, you know, some sort of place where you exist online. And then from there, start publishing just a little bit of content and just slowly start building that social media audience. That is a really good way just to get started and just to get a sense of when people are actually interested in the topic of your film. And then you really want to be collecting people's email addresses. And the way you do that is by a sign-up form on your website, and then you can communicate back to them through email newsletters, for example. Sounds old school, but it is actually the best way to really nurture an audience. So, for example, if you start that right at the beginning of your process, say your film takes 18 months or two years to produce, you've had 18 months to two years worth of communicating with your audience, getting them excited about your film. So when it finally comes out, they're ready and they want to see it. And you can build that up over time. If you try and do all that work in the last six weeks heading to release, or three months even, it's a huge amount of work and it's really hard to do. So the longer lead time you have, the better you're going to be off.

SPEAKER_02 11:28

That's good. And what about engaging with groups and networks like we talked about? When would you start that process? What are the practical things that people who are listening to this can do?

SPEAKER_01 11:39

I would be starting that right at the beginning as well as part of your research for the topic of your film. Because when you're researching a film, you you meet subject experts, you're um you're interviewing people, you're exploring the topic, you're really connecting with all these relevant groups and individuals. And that's almost where you start that networking process to build an audience for your film, is is right during that research period. Oh, I was just looking for a place where I could learn everything I need to know to make an amazing film that changes the world. It's such a shame that that place doesn't exist. Oh what? Hang on. It does. Oh, if you're looking for inspiration, ideas, tools, and ways to learn how to make movies that matter, head to Moonshine Communications Academy over at Instagram and all your problems will be solved.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Warning, results may vary depending on the questions, and success is not guaranteed. Always read the label Magic is anecdotal and the genie is not included.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

What are the calls to action for your audience? How do you want to inspire them to take some kind of useful action behind your film release?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Well, I think it changes depending on the film and where you are in your campaign. So as we were talking about before with your social media audiences, one of your really your earliest calls to action is going to be to follow your accounts or to subscribe to your newsletter. And then as you're releasing content throughout the process, that call to action might change to share content with your audiences, leave comments, get engagement, trying to really nurture that audience and really get them, you know, enthusiastic and excited about your film. And it might be to watch some short films on social media. But then as you come up to the release of your film, the call to action's almost exclusively going to be come and see my film, you know, come and be part of the audience at the cinema, come to whatever screening is happening. But then once they've seen the film, because this is impact filmmaking that I'm really talking about here, um, once people have seen your film, you're gonna want them to do something. And so what's that call to action? Is it do you want them to make a donation? Do you want them to host a screening of the film for their own audience? Do you want them to join a movement for a broader um societal undertaking that's going on? You know, what is it that you need your film to get that audience to do? So different points in the campaign is going to have a different call to action.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Once you've finished a film, are you finished with that audience?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

I think this is where what we do is a bit different to a lot of filmmakers. We don't hand our films over to a distributor and then let the distributor deal with everything from there. So I think from my answer for our films is that that audience stays with us for often many, many years to come. So the film you talked about before, Conquering Skin Cancer, actually started with a film prior to that called Conquering Cervical Cancer. And there's another one in the pipeline called Conquering Breast Cancer. So over probably by the time we finish the three of those films, we're talking about eight years. And we'll have taken those audiences on an eight-year journey. And we wouldn't just stop communicating to them simply because the film's gone to a distributor, because we don't hand our films generally over to a distributor. And I think it's the way you can really build a sustainable film production company is by having that ongoing audiences engaged and interested in your films and the work that you do.

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Some people listening to this might say, I'm a filmmaker. That's my role is to make the film and then hand it over to a distributor or a TV network. Why is it useful to build your own audiences?

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Well, look, I think that's completely okay. You can hand your film over to a distributor. I don't necessarily think distributors give you the best deal. Uh as an independent filmmaker, I'm not sure it's a sustainable way to finance your career simply because often the returns from distributors are not very good, particularly in documentary. I think with feature films, it's quite a different thing. The way they're distributed is quite different, often different processes. But when thinking about documentary, that can be really tough. It can be really tough to get returns on your film on the back end if you're not owning it and driving it. And when you have an audience that you've built for your film, you can continue to communicate to them. So initially it might be getting them to the cinema to see your film, or it could be if it's screening at a festival, whatever it is. But then if you've got them on a mailing list, you can go back to them and go, okay, now it's available on Vimeo on demand or however you're selling it, and then you can sell uh people, you know, to rent your film and get returns on it that way. Or you could sell a license to screen the film so that they can take the film and show it to their own community and then you're getting the return on it there, or it could go through educational distribution and you can get return there. But if you don't have any control or knowledge of who your audience are, then you can't nurture it and you can't get that ongoing relationship and returns on your film.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

I feel like there's something to be learned by major recording artists here. I think about someone like Taylor Swift, who's really been very hands-on in terms of how they're the content they're producing is managed out there in the world where it's allowed to be released, but also a huge focus on audience building and audience connection. And you can see how that's driven the Taylor Swift mega brand. Um, do you think there's something to be learnt there for us filmmakers as well?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Look, I really do because um I think a big part of this, I I keep coming back to you've got to get people on a mailing list so you can email them directly. So I think I don't know a lot about Taylor Swift's career, but one thing I had heard her talk about is when she was very early career, is she spent a lot of time on social media really building her profile and getting to know her audience, and it really helped her engage and build an audience. But if you only own your audience on social media, like look what's happening with TikTok at the moment, and suddenly uh Universals pulled all their artists off TikTok. And so all these artists are freaking out because they now all of their audience is on TikTok and they can no longer connect to them. You need to transition your audience to a platform like an email database where you can continue to communicate with them and you own that database. If you you don't own an audience on TikTok, you don't own your followers on Instagram. If Instagram shuts down tomorrow, they're gone. You have no way to communicate back to them. But if you'd transitioned them onto a mailing list, suddenly you can continue and you can point them to any social platform you want. So I think the music industry's learning that lesson the hard way through what's going on on TikTok. Um, and I think filmmakers can definitely learn from that through build your audience through social, but transition them into an email list so that you can really talk to them.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

I think that's great. So you've really guided us to a lot of those key principles of audience building and given us some really practical advice about how to build audiences, when to start the process, and how long you need to continue it for.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Ah, well, thank you. I hope it's been helpful. And of course, I'm very open to answering questions. If anybody wants to answer me to answer something specific, just head over to our Instagram and you can DM me at um Moonshine Communications Academy, or by all means head to the website, which is also moonshine communicationsacademy.com, and you can find the email address there and send me an email.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Thanks, Sue.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

All right, and we will of course be back next week. May or may not join me next week on the Moonshine Moonshot podcast. I look forward to catching up with you all then. Thank you for joining me today and every week here on the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. If you're wanting a deeper dive into the topics being discussed on the show, then I would encourage you to head over to Moonshine CommunicationsAcademy.com and sign up for the weekly drop of moonshine via your email. Being on our newsletter community means we can support your filmmaking journey in a more tailored way as well as keeping you up to date with the resources we share on how to make movies that matter and so much more that we deliver inside your inbox every single week. So head over to Moonshine CommunicationsAcademy.com and at the bottom of the homepage you'll see a little box to add your email address, and as a thank you for signing up, we'll also send you a bonus ebook to support your messaging. So voila, you'll be on the way to receive all the best content weekly.