The Art of Conducting Effective On-Screen Interviews with Mike Hill, Ep 86

This week host Sue Collins delves into the art of interviewing with special guest, Mike Hill.  Mike's an award-winning documentary filmmaker and interviewer. Mike shares his experiences and advice for aspiring interviewers, emphasizing the importance of being engaged, a better listener, and on a journey of discovery.

Listen in to find out how to conduct impactful interviews that make a difference.
 
00:05:51 Interviewing is about storytelling and discovery.
00:11:20 Active listening is a learnable skill.
00:17:13 Focus on the interviewee.
00:24:22 Online course on interviewing skills.

Whether you're a media professional or simply interested in the art of interviewing, this episode is for you.

You can find the course Mastering the Art of Interviewing for Media Production  here 

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. Can you believe we're up to 86 episodes already this season? And today I have something a little bit different for you. I am interviewing Mike Hill. I have been working with Mike Hill for many, many years, and over that period of time, he has produced countless award-winning films. He has done, I would estimate, at well over a thousand on-camera and off-camera interviews with experts and thought leaders and celebrities and as children as young as four years old recently in a preschool. So he has had an enormous wealth of experience with interviewing. And that is what today's podcast is going to be all about. Talking to Mike Hill about how to conduct a really solid, really effective on-screen interview for media professionals. Welcome to the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. I'm your host, Sue Collins, and if you've landed here, it means you're wanting to find out more about how to make filmmaking a sustainable career. And you're also curious about how to make meaningful work that fills your cup. You're ready to learn how to make movies that matter, build a sustainable career, and have a positive impact on your audiences. So you are in the right place. Filmmaking has so many parts, and I'm sharing what I've learned over the past 15 years producing impact films that reach their intended audience and support real-world change. So let's get started. It's a course that you can take on how to conduct an interview. So welcome to today's podcast, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Great to be here, Sue.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Well, perhaps we could kick off. Perhaps you could tell me a little bit about how did you actually learn how to do interviewing in the very first instance?

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Well, there was never a guidebook for this when I was learning how to study documentary filmmaking. So it was something that I definitely learnt on the job over many years through trial and error. And it's something that I absolutely love to do. Like I I'm never happier than when I am sitting down in the interview chair and going on a journey of discovery with an interviewee. I think it's a gift and it's something that I'm really interested in learning more about and helping people know some of the tricks that I've made and learned over the years.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

What is it about it that you love so much? What is it that gives you that real satisfaction?

SPEAKER_00 2:56

I think it's the curiosity. I think it's about learning, particularly because often when you're interviewing someone, they're a leader in their field or they're extraordinary in some way. So you're unlocking something in an interview that often has never seen the light of day. So I see the role of a documentary filmmaker as being one of bearing witness. And the interview is an absolutely critical part of gathering the testimony. So how you do that and how you go about it, I think is incredibly important. And every single moment counts in the process in terms of what you get out of the other end.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

So let's let's wind this back a bit. I mean, you've got many, many years experience and thousands of interviews under your belt. Is it okay to say thousands? Would that be true?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Yeah, that absolutely is true. I think when I came up with the idea for the series, I I counted roughly estimated how many interviews I'd done, and it was well over a thousand.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Well, it's kind of it's always hard to go back to remembering when you didn't know what you know now, but perhaps you could take us right back to when you very first do you even remember the very first interview you did?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Well, I remember the first documentary film that I made, which was a film about the history of skateboarding in Australia called Tic Tac to Heel Flip. I made it when I was 20 years old. And it involved interviewing 50 or so people for that film. And I remember one of those people was Tony Hawk, who's a world-renowned skateboarder and being so nervous about what I was going to ask Tony. Um and when I wind the clock back to how I interviewed then, uh I think often it was a bit rigid and often it was based on pre-prepared questions, which is a technique that I've moved a long way from ever since. I don't favor um preparing for interviews by writing out questions and reading those questions to the interviewee. Um I favor a more fluid approach, but one that's still based on doing your research.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

I want to pick up on that a bit. Why wouldn't because obviously, when particularly when you're new to interviewing, having pre-written questions to help you remember what you want to ask, particularly if it's a celebrity, someone like Tony Hawk, I can imagine you really want to know that you're asking the questions you want asked so that you can really capture the best of the moment. Why would you not have scripted questions?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

It's not about getting the right answer out of your interviewee. It's about connecting with them. So to be able to connect with someone, you need to relate to them. You need to be able to look them in the eye, you need to be able to give them gestures and feedback in a silent way so that it's not recorded on your audio track. And that connection I've found is what cuts through. So you actually need to get your interviewer, you need to help get your interview's ease out of the mode of just running pre-rehearsed questions and just delivering information, and you need to get them into a storytelling mode. And if you have a list of pre-written questions that you're just reading off a sheet, for one, you've lost the connection as soon as your eyes turn down to that sheet. Um, it also sends a message to your interviewee that they should be answering in a certain way. So it doesn't give them the latitude to actually discover something while they're giving you that answer. And what I find is it's that discovery that happens, something that they may not have even thought of, an insight that they never really articulated in that way, which is the precious element that you're looking for.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

It's really interesting that you're saying this because I'm thinking about my own practice when I'm interviewing, and I don't have anything like the experience you've had with interviewing talent on screen. But I know for myself I do a reasonable amount of research on the person that I'm going to be interviewing, and I have a pretty clear idea about what the topics that I'm going to be talking to them about are. And I'll often write questions, and I might have 20 different questions written down, and I'll I'll feel like I have to refer to them. So I'll have them on my phone, and I always say to the interviewee at the start, you know, if I'm looking at my phone, don't worry, I'm just checking my questions. I'm not checking email, I'm here with you. And then the interview starts, and then I don't even need to look at the questions until right at the very end, I might say, I'm just going to check on my notes, make sure I haven't missed anything. But once I'm in the flow of it, I don't actually need to go back to my questions.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I find that as well. You know, and I've certainly been in that position where I've written out questions. I don't do it anymore. I don't find that to be helpful anymore, but I definitely have at certain times on the journey. Knowing your subject's important. Knowing too much about your subject can be a trap. So you don't want to feel like you know so much about the subject that you're telling your interviewee who's an expert. Uh, that's why you're interviewing them. Um that you know more than they do. That's not the purpose of an interview. Your purpose is to extract the greatest amount of insight and depth of insight from that person. And I find that works best when you build up throughout the course of the interview. And it can't be as rigid as a set of questions that you may have written up at the office or at home because you are going on a journey together. So one idea and one insight needs to flow into the next, because that's when you're giving your interviewee the greatest opportunity to discover something that they'd never thought of in that way or never articulated in that way. So you're bringing those moments together in an order that makes sense for your conversation, not that makes sense on paper.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Yeah, that's a good point because often you'll have your interview questions written out in a very logical linear structure. But as soon as someone starts answering the questions, of course, they're not gonna lead one thing to the next the way you imagine that the conversation's gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 9:09

Yeah, so how do you do this? I think that's a really big question. How do you bridge from one idea to the next so that it has this positive compounding effect that just delivers richer and richer insight? That is something you can learn. Um, and it's something that the course really goes into in great detail. For some people, myself included, it is hard to hold a lot of ideas in the front of your mind in the moment. So you're actively listening to a person and what they're telling you. Um, they might be telling you lots of great stuff. And you are giving them positive gestural feedback, you know, in terms of non-verbal feedback, in terms of encouraging them towards the types of things that you're interested in learning more about. And what I do is just hold on to one thing that I want to ask them next. And then if they say something even better and I've got another thought, and I feel like that's an even richer line of inquiry, I'll drop the other thing and I'll just keep that thing in my mind until I get the opportunity to ask them the follow-up question. And I find that is the key. Bridging from one question to the next along what feels like a journey that makes sense to the person who you're interviewing so that you keep going deeper and deeper and deeper down that line of inquiry until you get to the gold.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

I'm actually gonna cycle back a little bit now because I I love what you're saying here about, but I feel like what you're saying is actually a level that takes a while, like someone shouldn't put that expectation on themselves at the very start of their career to be able to do what you're talking about there, which is really hang on to an idea that an interviewee said, stay focused on the interview and be able to recall that question to swing back to it. That's a really like uh advanced skill, I would have thought. Do you feel like that's something you've really developed over the years?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

This is not an interviewing skill. This is a life skill. So if you learn this, you will apply it in all areas of your life. And it is a learnable skill. And I don't think that it is an advanced skill, actually. I think it's just something that you need to practice. And you can practice it in everyday life when you're talking to people. So getting into that more meditative state of actually being on that active listening journey and letting go of things, being able to let go of things like you would let go of thoughts during meditation is the absolute key. There's a thought, I'm holding on to it. Now I'm letting go of it. Here's another thought. That can be practiced at home with your loved ones, with your friends, with your family. So I think you can get there quickly, but it is a very intentional practice.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

So, what would you think would be the best interview you've done? Do you have a favorite in all those thousands?

SPEAKER_00 12:24

That's like asking me what my favorite movie is. Impossible to answer. There have been so many different interviews. Of course, I could list the very high-profile people that I've interviewed, you know, politicians, leaders of um huge organizations like the World Health Organization, people who have made dramatic advances in science and technology, in business and culture. There have been so many. And I can't pin it down to one because sometimes the seemingly most everyday interviews can be the ones that give you the greatest gift. So I work a lot in storytelling around health. And often when people are on a difficult health journey, they are able to find insights in themselves that they may not have been able to access at different times in their life. And I've walked away from so many of those interviews feeling changed for the better because they've given me the gift of insight. And that's what our role is to capture those insights and then share them with the broadest audience we can.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

You've um you've produced, directed quite a number of award-winning documentary films, and many of which, as you say, have a health focus. Have you found through doing that that there's a particular sweet spot? So, how long an interview might need to go for, or how many interviews you need to capture to effectively put together a story for a feature film?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

I'll tackle the second part of that question first. How many interviews? Um, one of the great documentary filmmakers is Errol Morris. You know, he's one of the legends of our craft. Um, and he's made numerous films with a single interviewee. And I've done something similar and it's a challenge. So it can be as little as one. And for me, uh, you know, I've made films that have had over a hundred different interviewees in them, and they talk in chorus, and there's something really beautiful about storytelling in that way as well. So there's no right or wrong answer. I don't think there really is a sweet spot. I think it depends on the type of story you're telling and how you choose to tell that. In terms of the first part of your question, how long is the right duration for an interview? I've got a bit more of a sense of that over the years that I've done this. And it has to do with how tiring it is to be an interviewee, being asked questions, being challenged to find those insights and go deeper and deeper down one, you know, cohesive line of thought. Um, that is exhausting. So uh you will see it in your interviewee when they're peaking. So often they need to warm up at the start of the interview. I find that's got shorter over time for me, how quickly I can warm an interviewee up. And often I start with a surprising question, totally not what they were expecting, because that just gets them into that conversational mode. And then we're off and running. So after a few minutes, normally, you know, they are in flow, as you said. And then that will continue, you know, building from one idea to the next, usually for about 20 minutes or so. And then I get to a point where I want to ask them the big question, the question that is the reason I asked them to do the interview in the first place. After that, there'll be some follow-up questions, some mopping up, as you said, maybe checking, uh checking my notes to make sure that I've asked them everything that I wanted to, and then wrapping it. So for me, a normal interview duration is around 30 to 40 minutes. I find longer than that for most people is too much of a marathon effort. If we're doing a marathon interview, I will let the interviewee know that we're in for a marathon and we'll take breaks as we go along. I don't think I've ever interviewed anyone for more than about two hours. That's very, very long.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

I love that you've brought this back to Bang about the interviewee because I think this is something that as an interviewer, and I've certainly when I was very new to interviewing myself, you can have a tendency to feel like it's all about you. It's all about what questions you're gonna ask, are you gonna sound intelligent? Is the person going to respond in the way you want them to respond? Are you gonna get what you need? Is everybody doing what you need them to do? It's really easy to get into that me mindset where an interview is actually all about the interviewee. And I think when you can shift your focus to be 100%, how do I make this person feel comfortable? How do I make this person feel like they can share with me the answers that I'm asked to the questions I'm asking? How do you so from what you've just said then, I I sense that you feel that way too. It's it's really important to focus on the interviewee and not on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

Yeah, I totally agree with that. So it's not about you. And it's really important that you know what your job is as an interviewer. Uh so the the more selfless you are in that respect, even if you're appearing on camera, the more selfless you are in focusing on the other person, I believe, the better your interviews will be. And and that doesn't start at the first question. It starts before the person's even rocked up to the interview location. It starts during the pre-interview and how you're framing the intent of what you're trying to do. It starts with the trust you build with that person before the interview. It continues when they show up and you greet them at the door and you make them comfortable and you get them a drink if they need a drink, you show them where the bathroom is so they can get ready and mentally prepare. It goes through to how the microphone is put on them, to how they're seated in the interview location, to how you address them before the camera runs and give them a brief before you start, and about how that first question comes out of your mouth. Every moment counts.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Oh, I was just looking for a place where I could learn everything I need to know to make an amazing film that changes the world. It's such a shame that that place doesn't exist. Oh what? Hang on. It does. Oh, if you're looking for inspiration, ideas, tools, and ways to learn how to make movies that matter, head to Moonshine Communications Academy over at Instagram and all your problems will be solved.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Warning, results may vary depending on the questions, and success is not guaranteed. Always read the label Magic is anecdotal and the genie is not included.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

I think um everything you're sharing is so valuable for anyone who's getting started on their interviewing career. Um what went into like why did you decide to create a course on how to conduct interviews?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

For me, it has been one of the great pleasures of my life and and absolutely a career highlight to have the opportunity to be the interviewer. That is a role that many people don't understand and one that some people run away from. And that's okay. But if it feels like it's for you, if it feels like you would like to engage at that level of being curious in the world, then this course will just help you, I hope, along that road by learning from the things that my experiences over many years, some mistakes in there too, that can be avoided. Um, but also little tips about how you can run your interview best. And I just feel like having more great interviewers out in the world will make the world a better place. I get worried when I see the daily news cycle and how superficial it is in terms of how much information we're getting. We need great interviewers to understand the complexities of this world. Um, we need great interviewers to be able to connect with one another, with subjects and with people. We need great interviewees to learn. And that's why this course exists.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

And so who is the course for? Let's just clarify that a little bit more. Who would benefit from watching this course on how to conduct an interview?

SPEAKER_00 21:20

I think any media professional who is required to do interviews as part of their job, they could be audio interviews, they could be on camera. Um, but for content creation. So anyone who's involved in some sort of content creation who needs to ask questions of someone to be able to create that content, this course is for them.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

So content creators, journalists, podcasters, which sounds pretty obvious given we're doing a podcast. Um communication filmmakers, communications specialists, or communications people. Um and the course. Itself is actually called, just in case anyone's trying to Google it, Mastering the Art of Interviewing for Media Production. So let's for anyone who might be curious about finding out more, what do you cover in the course? Can you give me the quick overview?

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Well, it's pretty detailed. So there's hours of content and examples as part of the course. So it it generally covers three main areas, which are the principles of interviewing. So the kind of fundamental uh cornerstones that you need to know in terms of, you know, getting yourself off on the right track. Then it gets into very practical areas of interviewing, right down to what happens before an interview, how you run an interview in great detail, and what you need to do post-interview. So they're the main areas that it covers. Um, and then there's this foundational knowledge that I felt was really important to give people at the start of the course.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

And the course itself you can do online in your own time, at home. Just you just need the internet and to have purchased the course. It's not an in-person, that's not, you know, um, some courses involve group work and that is none of that, is it?

SPEAKER_00 23:19

No, I mean, there's some, you know, some helpful notes and um examples that are provided as part of the course, but it's something that you'll learn in your own time. It's something that you can go back to if there's an area that you need to um brush up on, for example. Uh, it really gets down to the nitty-gritty of what you need to know, like right down to how to put a microphone on someone or how to mic someone up in the best way to make them comfortable, to get the best performance out of them. It goes right into the detail of how you do your consent forms and how you maintain a relationship with your interviewees after you've done the interview for your benefit. So there's a lot of detail in there. It's broken down into bite-sized steps. I don't think any of the, you know, the lessons in the course run for longer than about seven or eight minutes. So they're bite-sized, you can just chip away at it in your own time or do it in one big block.

SPEAKER_02 24:18

And how does someone find the course? Where do they need to go?

SPEAKER_00 24:22

So the course is available at Moonshine Communications Academy. So if they Google Moonshine Communications Academy, they will find it available on Kajabi.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

Yeah, so Moonshine Communications Academy.com and you just go to the courses tab and you will find it. That's fantastic. So hopefully everyone listening today has taken away a few nuggets just from this interview that will hopefully help them um improve their own interviewing skills. Is there any sort of little last piece of advice you could give to someone who's just new to getting into interviewing?

SPEAKER_00 24:58

Don't be scared. This pathway just keeps on giving. It's not about the content you create, although that's the job that we do. It's actually about being a more engaged person, being a better listener, um, and being on a journey of discovery. So I would encourage anyone who's listening to this and saying, This sounds like something I'm interested in to just keep going down this path. It will keep on giving for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

Well, thanks, Mike. Really appreciate you coming on the show today and having a chat with me about interviewing. I know it's a topic that a lot of people are really interested in and wanting to build their skills in. So uh if anyone wants to ask questions that have maybe come up for them after this podcast, just head over to Moonshine Communications Academy on Instagram. You can direct message me and I'll make sure Mike gets that question, or you can also um shoot an email across to uh support at Moonshine CommunicationsAcademy.com. I'm pretty sure it's support, but it's on the website if you um if you want to look it up, and I will put it into the show notes. So thank you again, Mike.

unknown 26:11

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 26:12

We'll be back next week. Well, I'll be back next week with uh another episode for you, and I think I'm gonna do one on consistency because I am incredibly inconsistent, and yet I'm always told you have to be consistent in order to be good at stuff. So I'm gonna talk about that next week. Speak to you soon. Thank you for joining me today and every week here on the Moonshine Moonshot Podcast. If you're wanting a deeper dive into the topics being discussed on the show, then I would encourage you to head over to Moonshine CommunicationsAcademy.com and sign up for the weekly drop of moonshine via your email. Being on our newsletter community means we can support your filmmaking journey in a more tailored way as well as keeping you up to date with the resources we share on how to make movies that matter and so much more that we deliver inside your inbox every single week. So head over to moonshinecommunicationsacademy.com and at the bottom of the homepage you'll see a little box to add your email address, and as a thank you for signing up, we'll also send you a bonus ebook to support your messaging. So voila, you'll be on the way to receive all the best content weekly.